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Poster: tbrad Date: Nov 20, 2006 8:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: '73 or '74?

You have to agree these are the two best years (or maybe you don't, in which case I'm certain ya'll will tell me why) - but which is better?
I'm currently leaning toward '74.
My fav show ever is Winterland Arena on 1974-02-24.
For '73 it's between Spectrum on 1973-03-24, Robert F. Kennedy Stadium on 1973-06-10 and Dane County Coliseum on 1973-02-15.

I guess for me, to be a 'great' show there must be a Dark Star - I know this leaves out a lot. Maybe it's too restrictive. I still listen to all the other eras but to my ears the DS's from 60's thru '72 were too fast - I like laid back and spacey. The DS's from the 80's and '90's are good but they are just jams, lacking in the cosmic creativity that marked the '70's.
I like the '79 shows too.
If they had just played DS during the '77 run I would listen to it more - imagine for a moment 5-8-77 if it had ST Steven > DS??!!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 21, 2006 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

I go back and forth between 73 and 74 for which is best (of course, DS or no, I think '77 rules over them all)...

but for me '74 barely edges out '73 due to one show in particular--the stunning Freedom Hall show , Lex., Kentucky...6-18-74. Brilliant all the way thru.

PNE Vancouver 6-22-73 is my favorite show from that year, and the Birdsong from that show has moved into my #1 all time favorite slot, which is saying a lot for a song that's in my Top 3 of overall Dead tunes.

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Poster: not_a_typical_daydream Date: Nov 20, 2006 10:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

I really like that 2/24/74 show, it is definitely in my top 10 all time. I don't know what it is, but almost every show they played at Winterland really does it for me. As far as which year is better, tough call. That may truly be which ever show you have on at the moment.

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Poster: tree-ap Date: Nov 22, 2006 5:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Chocolate--milk or dark? Apples or oranges? Or grapes? '73? '74? How about '94? It's ALL in how the music makes YOU feel... Other then the "sound" of each particular year, there's little difference. Listen to Europe '72 & Steppin' Out---Europe '72 seems to me to sound almost as if it was actually recorded in a studio---something in the vocals. Steppin' Out just "sounds" "different" to me. Most of us could probably pick out the exact year a show was played if given a small snippet of a show without knowing the year it came from, just from "the sound" of the performance, instruments, vocals, etc.
If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick, then '74 would be it---it's that '74 "sound" that has me. Though, as DS's go, 2/15/73 has my #2, if not #1 pick as my fav. There's something about the WHOLE show that hooked me from the first time I heard the first few notes.
My fav The Other One has to be 9/28/72, with 12/1/71 as #2. Most of us have probably heard 9/28/, but it seems few have heard 12/1/71. Put headphones on and LISTEN to TIFTOO from this Boston Music Hall show---I PROMISE it'll BLOW YOUR MIND!!!
Anyway, back to '73 / '74. My feeling is that performances from '73 were consistantly tighter & jazzier than '74, but again---chocolate, milk or dark?
WWWEEE LLLOOOVVVEEE YYYOOOUUU!!!

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Nov 20, 2006 9:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Eh.. like i've learned.. it's all subject to what era you are in at the time. Right now im duh-duh-duh-diggin' the 80's. Brent's voice and keyboard is a great change from keith.. although i do love my keith [for those rarer times that he is on --] I mix it up to be honest though.. i can hold 20 full shows on my music device, and i'm not going to put 20 73' or 74' shows on it, even if theyre my favorite :P

I always felt 74 was more jazzier. Is 74 when mickey went out because his father pulled all that financial crap?

I prefer one drummer for the dead.. billy could really get crazy on that set. Man.. you just needa look at his face while he's drumming. looks like the guys having an epileptic seizure. On the GD movie, in the interview portion of the DVD, he says "i'm like a four sided schizophrenic when i play drums.. you know.. you get to the point when you're just dancing" (4 sided schizo being his two feet and arms drumming of course)

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Poster: tbrad Date: Nov 20, 2006 9:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Yeah, it was just Billy in '74 and I totally agree with your assessment of his skills.
I feel that in many ways, the sound depended on him, when he was on it everything just fell into place so perfectly.
He was a genius, like Bud Powell type genius.

Speaking of '80s, I really like the 11-29-80 show at U of F. Also 6-23-88 Alpine Valley saw Brent in rare form - check out the Hey Apoke Way and Gimme some Lovin' - very soulful.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Nov 20, 2006 9:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

so true Max ... i could say one thing today, and tomorrow the answer could be completely different. absolutely love '72 Jerry band stuff, but lately been getting back into '84 JGB, and now that's my fave. go figure.

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Poster: JodyC Date: Nov 21, 2006 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Was it you I sent the Jerry Compilation#9 to? did it arrive safely, do you like, and is there any others you'd like?

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Nov 21, 2006 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Jody, yes, and thank you. The disk still sits here at my desk within easy reach. Have so little '76 JG stuff and your disk tripled what i did have ... scant to say the least. If your offer stands, i'll give a listen to the #3 disk. But you have to let me send you something. What do you think of the Robert Hunter and Peter Rowan show mentioned below? I can send you a copy of that.

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Poster: JodyC Date: Nov 21, 2006 10:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Sounds like a winner of a trade. I'll get it out this weekend. I was not efficient and did not keep you address. Can you remind me jodymcollins at sbcglobal dot net. Thanks.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Jody ... will send you e-mail tonite when i get back home. Thank you!

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Poster: JodyC Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Thats fine. I can send it tomorrow with the address

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Nov 21, 2006 4:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Max: Mickey was gone much earlier: 2/18/1971 -- he actually returned to sit in for some songs on the band's last show before they went on sabbatical in 1974 (10/20/'74) - Stay Focused, - AshesRising

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Nov 21, 2006 2:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

My favorite 2 years. God you can go back and forth forever - The main thing is keep mining and you'll keep coming up with solid gold. Have to agree that Oct to Dec 73 is the best 3 month period in history but that spring 74 is just so close. I believe the Boston 74 "jam" is the greatest 30 minutes in dead history also.

Keep mining

Keep mining

A lot missing from LMA !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 21, 2006 3:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

I gotta go with 74 with no disrespect to 73 whatsoever. This is partly due to what i hear as a mellower jazzier sound. Plus, i just like the actual "sound" of the boards better in 74 than 73. More "even" in the vocals vs instruments on average. Some of 73's can be a little vocal heavy, especially with bobby.

Just can't beat 74, 76,77, and 95 for all round consistent great music.

This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2006-11-21 23:13:27

This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2006-11-21 23:13:55

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Nov 21, 2006 3:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

another vote for october to dec.73,magnum opus of grateful dead music.if a time machine is ever invented,you can find me there.

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Nov 22, 2006 5:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

I use to find it very easy to answer my fav year question, and the answer was always '74.

I haven't changed me answer but now arrive at it more difficultly as I've discovered so many gems in '72 and '73. The Pigpen factor still present in '72 is hard to ignore as well.

As for why '74 is stil tops for me one need only listen to some of my favs such as 6/18/74, 6/23/74 , The combo DP featuring Providence and Boston, and the whole Winterland retirement run.

No offence to 76+77 but IMHO they never again matched what they were in the retirement year.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 21, 2006 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Argh...No one takes up the challenge? It's all love and kindness after the bloodletting of days before? Oh well, I am too much of a newbie to do anything about it, and I am only now really being educated about 72, 73, 74 (love the Paris show, Ashes or was that Arbuthnot?) and 77, so I cannot stand toe to toe with the good and knowledgeable folks speaking up on this thread...

But, I will say that while I acknowledge that the Dead changed (I stopped going because they changed so much--it wasn't just the aging), and in some ways became better muscians with the jazzy sound of these years under consideration, 69 and 70 simply offer too much of the real Dead sound (acoustic, jams, solid vocals, etc.) for me to consider any other time period in the discussion.

Sorry!

PS: you would be surprised at the number of folks truly disappointed by the last run of shows in October 74 at Winterland; I agree with the prior poster--they were ready for a break then...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2006-11-21 15:36:52

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Poster: countmlbjam Date: Nov 21, 2006 7:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

You can't argue with anyone choosing 72-74 as a best year. All three are amazing and special in their own right. I've always felt that 10/19/73>12/19/73 was the best two straight months in GD history. The DStars, palindrome, Here comes Sunshine, MLB jams, Eyes , etc. My favorite two months.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 21, 2006 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Well, I am trying to argue against those two years, but only relative to my choice (69-70). However, now that I am hearing them, I do agree that there is indeed something really special about the two month period you mention (Oct to Dec, right?). It seems that Ashes (again, maybe Arbuthnot) put me on to two shows, one from Dec and one from Nov, 73, and they are both excellent.

One question for you all: can you pick better song writing and performances (singing) by Jerry over those of 70? I really do NOT think you beat Hunter's early years for song writing, as subjective as that is, but within poetry circles I have heard his early years are strongest; and Jerry really does loose something vocally (two packs a day)...

Ah well, I know 72-73 is loved near and far--loosing battle? Help--quick, somebody insult me and then...Dire?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 21, 2006 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

you smell like a goat!!

(was that helpful?)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 21, 2006 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Thanks...I think...was hoping someone else would, and then you'd defend me. Oh well--this thread isn't getting anyone's goat anyhow.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 21, 2006 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

lol -- oops, i totally misread that one, sorry. now i seee what you meant (duh).
god, i mean, i feel like crap today (not trying to elicit sympathy), but i thought i could atleast perform basic reading comprehension - not like what you wrote was confusing. even a goat could understand it :)

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Nov 21, 2006 7:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

74

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Nov 21, 2006 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Dire, I don't mean to be flagrant, but wouldn't you probably smell more like a goat?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 21, 2006 10:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

LMAO!!!! yeah....sadly :)

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Poster: Street Pig Date: Nov 21, 2006 5:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

2.15.73 2.22.73,3.16.73, 3.21.73, 3.28.73!,6.10.73 and 8.1.73 are just some of the reasons why 73 is a stellar year, all have splendid recordings and jazzy Dark Stars usually venturing into Eyes, 74 is also stellar but you can tell the fellas are slammed burned out by the Winterland shows, I would be too if I played as many marathon shows as they did, Pig

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Poster: Robony Date: Nov 21, 2006 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

I always love the "Best Year" debates. Its alot like asking, "Which of your children do you love more?"

Besides, we all know that 65 - 79 was the best year!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 21, 2006 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

I do know what you mean, BUT respectively, disagree. We all know that there can be 'bad' shows, when we all agreed some songs were done poorly, and also that explains the highness of the highs--they were 'better' than usual at some other show. This establihes the certainty of our being able to discern good shows from bad, even if we still all agree that subjectivity (music tastes) plays a large role as well, and that we might love all their music to varying degrees.

So, I simply argue that within the framework of loving the Dead, the things that are good about them are better in 69 and 70. These 'things' have to do with song writing, vocal sound, tightness and energy of jams (eg, note that one of my favorites, The Eleven, was a highly practiced song--they spent weeks working on it during practice), etc., etc.

Anyway, my very BIASED two cents...

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Nov 21, 2006 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

mr. Tell, while i'm not one who had the good fortune, like yourself, to witness the GD in their heyday, and not even in their post heyday, i'd like to think that they achieved an equal of that earlier inspiration post '69-'70. all that you mention are certainly to be found in your preferred years, and i myself find much to treasure about shows from that era. but i gotta tell you, and despite really loving the tight and fast playing of '68 to '70ish, and which was more the norm than not, i have to retreat into the rest of the '70s and early '80s in order to satiate as well my need for more lyrically-rich shows, which feature some really mature and brilliant musicianship. Not to mention there are a number of artists/bands that i truly enjoy listening to, and who never played in the '60s, couldn't jam like the GD if they tried (or jam at all), and yet are in every way as inspired/inspiring as the GD, with equally engaging lyrics. Should these artists/bands then be shunted aside?

However, i'm a huge lover of '68 & '69 GD stuff and so in that sense it's hard to argue with your point.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 21, 2006 1:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Of course they should be shunted, shunned and largely ignored...sad, but true for me (I just don't have the time) even though I listen to them (others) on occasion, nobody draws me in like the boys (but of course, we all know that feeling).

In spite of my biases, I am starting to appreciate the mid 70s years: I am now listening to the 72 'mega DSs' (eg, DPs 36), and the St Stephen/Other One jams from fall of 77 and early 78 (the Jan show...wheww!!!) that you guys put me onto--it is starting to shake the foundation of my biased core! But, in these 'revivial years' (72-78 I will call them), there are some examples of the slow paced noodling (not my derogatory phrasing) that still leaves me flat (I know, critics of my era can point to the absurdly repetitious keyboards on early DS).

In the end, you all have taken the challenge and helped me greatly by educating me on what I am missing, and for that I am truly Grateful! Let the re-education continue.

Thanks.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2006-11-21 21:17:15

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 21, 2006 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

" "Which of your children do you love more?"

Yeah but I bet MOST people secretly know which kid they LIKE more, though we'd never tell them that I hope.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 21, 2006 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

god, i hate that feeling - i feel so guilty when i even think about it even though it may be completely natural.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Don't go trying to make me feel guilty now! What can I say? I love both my kids more than life itself. I hope that didn't come out wrong but the fact is my older butts heads and takes the hard road on EVERYTHING. As much as I love her she is a very difficult child, VERY difficult. Then there's my son who I am actually glad when he does something I can bust him for so my daughter will see that I don't give preferential treatment because the fact is he allmost NEVER does anything wrong. He's a mellow peace love and get along kid with a killer sense of humor, and she's a put up your dukes I'm not only not taking sh*t I'm about to START some sh*t. They are like oil and water and yet each have good traits the other one doesn't. So to make a long story longer I probably shouldn't have said I like my youngest one better but damn if he doesn't make my life so much easier than his sister.

Hope I don't sound like a creep.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Like Robony said - you sound like a parent - didn't intend for you to feel guilty - i only speaking for myself. I am in much the same boat myself. My two are close in age - only 15 months apart. My 7 year old girl is tough, athletic, not too gentle, in your face (though wants to be loved), and aggressive. My 8 year old girl is wiry, athletic, but very gentle, kind, loveable, huggy, and very much daddy's little girl. She knows how to play me like a fiddle and surely will be the one to break my heart someday. I realize i am simplifying their personalities. Love them both more than i thought i could ever love anyone, but the 8 year old is just easier to handle. I sure can understand when you say it is almost a good thing when the "easier one" needs to be chastized just so the other child doesn't always feel singled out. Very much the same here. Sorry for going on and on

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

No need to apologize to ME. Before I had kids I used to get annoyed at people who talked about their kids all the time but after you have them it's hard not too. I can totally relate to everything you said Dire.

My apologies to all the serious Dead Heads here for derailing this thread. I'm preferrential to 74 probably for the tightness and presision of Billy's groove and 1974 is probably the top of Weirs game. He's practically a dual lead with Jerry.

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Poster: Robony Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Nope. You sound like a parent! :-)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

: )

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Poster: acetboy Date: Nov 21, 2006 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

.

This post was modified by acetboy on 2008-05-30 02:23:50

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-11-21 18:17:02

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 21, 2006 4:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Yeah, second on that 6-16-74. Set III ( yeah that's right THREE ) is one of my all time favs. I personally think this show is MUCH better than 6-18-74. MUCH better.

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Nov 21, 2006 12:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '73 or '74?

Hello Tbrad,
Although 1974 is short on Dark Stars (only 5) I really favor some of these in my alltime Dark Star favs.
Mainly 2/24, as others mention. But 5/14 is also a real standout - if you like the jazzy free form style of Dark Star. The Dark Star Jam on 6/23 is also worthy of note.
But 2/24/ and 5/14 are THE ones.

And ... if you haven't done so, I suggest you check out the Dark Stars from 90-91 with Bruce Hornsby. Very much in the same 1974 vein, in a way. Jazz flavored, very big sound and mellow jams. I think you'll enjoy them.
cheers,
Dr. Flashback

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